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Record routing bug and fader assign limitation at high sample rate

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  • Record routing bug and fader assign limitation at high sample rate

    Hi everybody.
    I've got myself a Maxx recorder for sound effects and ambiences recording, a big step for me.
    4 great quiet mic preamps & the ability to work at 96 or 192 Khz, made it the first choice high resolution portable recorder for Mono, LR, LCR, Ambisonic and other mic setups. I'm very pleased with it so far, but I've got a few problems I'd like to share.
    First, has anyone encountered issues while changing the record routing setup at high sample rate frequencies (from 88,2 Khz). My Maxx won't let me. For example if I add an analog input on one of the card track, it won't record it. I have to go back first to a lower sample rate, do my routing setup, and then put back the sample rate to the higher value. Can anyone confirm that?
    I'm also a bit disappointed by the high sample rate limitations, that I've been aware of when I got the Maxx in hands. Never clip disabled is sad news, as it's a such a great tool, and fader assign too, which is my second problem. Having one fader to control the trim of several analog inputs is very useful to keep a perfect balance between the mics in stereo or surround setup, and very fast to operate. I pray for an upgrade that would make it happen! (I'm on V2.02 by the way)
    A strange thing is when fader 1 is set to trim analog inputs 1 & 2, a stereo mic for example, and you switch from 48K to 96 Khz, fader 1 still seems to operate the both analog inputs, and fader 2 operates the 2nd analog input on top of it. I don't get it.
    Thanks

    Alexis / sound editor / Paris, France

  • #2
    Sounds frustrating. Hopefully just software bugs that will eventually be ironed out. If not then maybe a thorough explanation page in the manual regarding the differences in operation when recording with high sample rates is in order.

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    • #3
      There does seem to be a bug when assigning record tracks at higher sample rates. I should be able to fix that soon.
      I will see what I can do about making higher sample rates work better.
      -howy

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      • #4
        Thanks Howy !!

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        • #5
          Hey Guys,

          I am also field recordist using my trusty Max for sound effects primarily. I love the machine!! I agree with alexis on some disappointing features missing at high sample rates. Never clip and fader assign. Assigning multiple trims to one fader would be excellent and very useful

          Some other high sample rate suggestions:
          - Important tool missing is the slate. Works fine in 48Khz once sample rate is changed to higher than 48Khz, slate stops working.
          - Post fader Iso's would be nice when extra gain is needed for recording quiet sounds.

          The new software updates in v2.00 and up are fantastic!! I never expected for my max to turn into a 6 TRACK iso monster!!

          Will the 4 track limit at high sample rates be bumped up to 6 TRACKS to accommodate the extra 2 line inputs you guys have so graciously given us - for us SFX guys

          - Nolan - Vancouver BC

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Nolan Mc Sound View Post
            - Post fader Iso's would be nice when extra gain is needed for recording quiet sounds.
            - Nolan - Vancouver BC
            Hi Nolan,
            I'm still on 1.40, here you can choose: Record Routing>ISO Pre/Post individually.
            Further, Howie has already implemented a +10dB gain option selectable in ENG > Input Levels > Extra Gain.
            If you turn your ISO attenuation off (0dB) you should well and truly have enough to record 'clean air'.
            If not, maybe your microphone isn't sensitive enough.
            Also, don't forget, you can always boost the recorded material in Post without risking LSB noise, due to NeverClip.
            Re. high sample rates, I think this longing is a lot of smoke and mirrors.
            I don't see much purpose in recording at higher SR, as it won't make much difference at the other end, and just consumes processing power and data storage. 96k, you can't capture it (neither Senn 8060, Schoeps CMIT or Neumann KMR81D have a frequency response >20kHz), you can't hear it and you can't reproduce it. I challenge you to sweep the tone generator and 'see' how high up you can actually hear. Bet you, not much above 16k, which means x2= 32kHz should actually be sufficient to cover that spectrum. Since TV is 48k, you shouldn't have any worries.
            Bit count, in contrary, offers a true added value of +6 dB dynamic range per bit, and since we Recordists (purists) strive to capture clean, uncompressed sounds in an sometimes uncontrollable environment, this actually helps. Especially since in mixing multichannel, you would also increase your LSB noise floor with the amount of channels used.
            Last edited by grafpez; 02-21-2014, 06:36 PM.

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            • #7
              I think the purpose of recording in higher sample rates may be for postproduction audio processes rather than capturing higher frequencies. Would Neverclip be useful to record impacts?
              Last edited by Ignacio; 02-22-2014, 12:34 PM.

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              • #8
                Ignacio, what exactly do you mean by 'recording impacts'?

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                • #9
                  I meant loud transients, hits, shoots...
                  Last edited by Ignacio; 02-22-2014, 12:34 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Recording at high sample rates for fx isn't to do with higher frequencies, but post manipulation

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                    • #11
                      Hey Fellas!

                      As stated above the purposes of recording at high sample rates for FX is to have more flexibility and resolution when manipulating files and pitching them down in post.

                      grafpez - Yes in all versions you can choose pre/post ISO's at 48 Khz and below - not at sample rates above that. The +10db input gain option in the ENG menu is good solution to getting some extra gain when required thanks for pointing that out. I use some purdy nice mics for SFX - a stereo pair of MKH 8040's, they are beautiful

                      Ignacio - Yes never clip would be great for recording loud transients i.e. gunshots, explosions, car drops, etc… I set my levels appropriately of course, but sometimes you only got one opportunity at recording a given sound. In those instances it would be nice to know I got never clip backing me up

                      Enjoy the weekend everybody

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                      • #12
                        Re. 'Recording 192kHz', there is a pretty good thread in the Nomad Section. Personally, this is a Post issue. buy decent plugins. and yes, the 8040s are noooice. .
                        And to Ignacio, the nice thing about having Maxxies extra headroom (without surcoming 16Bit LSB noise) is: Safety, and not having to hit that limiter...and they can't look ahead, that trick only works once it's been recorded. If you'd mix live 'to program' (on -9dBFS) you only have 9 dB left for surprises. no where near enough, but thanks to Neverclip, ample of options.

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                        • #13
                          Hi Zaxcom team. It's been a while now, since I've told you about that bug affecting record tracks assignement at high sample rates. I've been using my Maxx mostly at 96 Khz for sound effects and ambience recording, and I'm constantly changing my mic setup and recording tracks assignement. Each time I have to go back to 48 Khz first, make the record assignement, and go back to 96 or 192 Khz. It's getting a little bit on my nerves Is a fix, something we can hope for christmas? And the fader assign function disabled at high freq rates, is it something the Maxx can't handle? It's so useful...

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                          • #14
                            I was frustrated by this recently too recording sfx. It would be nice for rec routing and slate mic to work at higher sample rates.

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                            • #15
                              Posting at jwsound appears to get you more attention, in as much as more people see it and comment on it. Glen is more active there. Also the Facebook group is more likely to get feedback and others chipping in.
                              Last edited by maceasy; 12-14-2014, 03:55 PM.

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